I'm out of office until Aug-24. Will respond to all requests upon my return. Thanks, Martin

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HDD problem...
#1
Hi Martin

I recently bought a Seagate IRONWOLF 6TB HDD, and as soon as your monitoring software starts this drive keeps making clicking and all sorts of other sounds. It stops immediately when I close your app. What could the problem be?

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
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#2
It's possible that when HWiNFO queries the drive for SMART status (and temperature) while the drive is in idle mode, it spins up.
Try to go into Sensor Settings / General and raise the Polling Frequency of Disk S.M.A.R.T. to a number higher than 1, i.e. 10 or 100 or higher to see if that helps.
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#3
Hi Martin

That works, but it is not ideal. Surely there must be a way to query the drive without causing the noises. At 10 it makes the sounds every 3 seconds. It can't be spinning up the drive since it is a NAZ drive and I never allow it to spin down.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
Reply
#4
HWiNFO is using standard methods to query drive SMART status and these don't cause such problems with other drives.
So the problem must either be in the drive firmware, or driver.
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#5
Hi Martin

I could still understand when you shot me down about making you GUI more user friendly, but I have other software that monitors this drive without any problems. Your unwillingness to investigate the matter leaves me no choice, but to uninstall HWiNFO.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
Reply
#6
https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-My-t...3#pid13493
This feature was added only per YOUR request.
I'm wondering how many software authors or companies have satisfied your requests, including software that you paid for..
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#7
(05-06-2017, 07:18 AM)Martin Wrote: https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-My-t...3#pid13493
This feature was added only per YOUR request.
I'm wondering how many software authors or companies have satisfied your requests, including software that you paid for..

Hi Martin

You are certainly right when you ask: 'how many software authors or companies have satisfied your requests'. The answer to that can only be none, if any. My first thought when I read it was that it was a bit unprofessional of you to ask me that and not helpful at all, but the last part of the sentence revealed your true intention.

Since you brought up money I will entertain the thought simply because I have a huge respect for you. I tried to pay for your app back then, but the PayPal link kept giving me an error message in Firefox and Edge. I gave up because I'm weak, lazy, and I do not need to part with my money that badly. In case you were as I suspect, accusing me of being a freeloader I will now list some of the software I am currently paying for:
Windows 10 Pro (On my older system (Not sure it is worth the money they want for it))
Corel Paint Shop Pro (Huge source of frustration)
ACDSee (Good app)
Adobe InDesign (Not sure who owns who here)
SMPlayer (Juicy stuff)
Total Commander (The only app that has always made me smile since 386's were hot)
And many more... Please supply me with another means of payment that does not try to rip my soul out and I will gladly pay even though I will probably uninstall your app soon (we will call it payment for services rendered then).

I never saw the post you linked to for some odd reason. Maybe I got a bit frustrated back then (childish, I know). Since I have now seen it, I can say (and would have said back then): Good start! I'm sure your users will be very pleased. I think it is a huge step up from before, and if you or even just one other user agrees with me then was it really just for me? Or did I help YOU make YOUR app better by giving you an idea you should have implemented from the start? Search your soul Martin.

I got frustrated with your reply for two reasons:
1. It was midnight here when I saw it and your reply was in no way helpful.
2. Since I installed this drive my tray icons simply won't work. When I drag one icon (say drive temp) to another location in the tray, another unrelated icon (like CPU temp) always moves with it as if they were coded to be a pair. This only happens with the new drive's icons. They always seem to choose a random partner at startup that moves with them. This vexed me so much that I was not even going to mention it, but I digress.

If I offended you then or now I apologize.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
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#8
No, sorry you completely misunderstood me. I never asked for any donations and there's no connection or obligation between implementing requested features and donating.
If anyone likes HWiNFO, I'm happy. If anyone decides to also to donate, then I'm even more happy.
The link to donate is placed at the bottom of the homepage, which might be overlooked by lots of users. There are no jumping banners or links in the middle of the screen that would request donations. Many users don't realize that there are lots of expenses to create such a tool - webhosting, certificates, development tools and lots of others, and I still offer HWiNFO for free. The few advertisements (which I tried to place not to be too offensive) help to cover some expenses.

I'm getting dozens of various suggestions, requests and bug reports. Believe me, that my backlog is huge and I try to walk through it when I can, but I simply cannot implement all requests. I have to prioritize this, because highest priority is stability and reliable hardware support. I'm working on this tool almost everyday for more than 20 years and I have put a huge amount of my life time into this. I'm not sitting idle, there's a lot of work being done 'behind the scenes' to make this tool better and better.

Regarding the actual problem of HDD clicking:
- What other tools you use that monitor disk SMART attributes or temperature of the drive, which don't exhibit such behavior ?
- Are you sure those tools periodically poll the drive ?
- Please try to disable the disk sensors in HWiNFO one by one to determine which of them is causing the clicking sound and let me know the result.
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#9
Hi Martin

It is a pity really that your entire reply was about money. I wrote a lot else that you could have commented on, but I guess you are busy and need to speed-read. Please send me banking info to my e-mail and I will pay. Your software deserves at least this.

Here are the answers you requested:
- What other tools you use that monitor disk SMART attributes or temperature of the drive, which don't exhibit such behavior ?
I use Seagate's Seatools, and before you say 'Yes, but it does not poll all the time.' I would like to remind you that the drive info page polls the drive once for all this information and more. Opening and closing this page several times refreshes its information, and the drive makes no sound at all. It also passes all tests without any sound whatsoever. I have HWiNFO set on every 10000 cycles for the time being, and still it is very disconcerting every now and then when the HDD sounds like it just swallowed a bad byte. Surely then Seatools should cause the same sound at least once when it queries the drive?!?
- Are you sure those tools periodically poll the drive ?
N/A
- Please try to disable the disk sensors in HWiNFO one by one to determine which of them is causing the clicking sound and let me know the result.
When I disable the entire heading S.M.A.R.T.: ST6000VN0041-2EL11C (ZA17DWJQ) the clicking and clattering stops. Simply disabling all items inside it does not work.
Disabling/Enabling Drive: ST6000VN0041-2EL11C (ZA17DWJQ) makes no difference. Meaning it does not cause any sounds.

Here is a question for you:
Are you aware that most people with NAS drives are complaining about these noises to their monitoring software vendors (Google). This is something new that you have to implement for NAS drives as far as I can understand. So unless you can find out what it is I will have this problem. I am still living with the limited sensor information available from my graphics card because you rather had me disable features than to find out why it is not working right. Now I have to disable all S.M.A.R.T. information on my HDD too. Surely you can see my frustration.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
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#10
What's the global polling frequency you're using in HWiNFO ?
Seagate's own tool surely knows how to properly talk to their drive, which might not be known to others.
How about other tools, i.e. CrystalDiskInfo or any other not from Seagate. Are they causing the same effects ?
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#11
Hi Martin

I use 500ms. Any other polling frequency does not make any sense. My water-cooling brings a temp down to normal within a second, so when I hear the pump spinning up I like to look down and see how high it goes. 1 second does not even register the change.

I used to use every 1 cycle for the HDD's, but it is now on 10000. I think 1 is the default it installed with.

HWMonitor gives me temp and airflow temp. The drive makes a low almost inaudible tock tock noise every second which is as far as I am concerned also breaking the drive over time.

I have uninstalled most other monitoring software because your app took their place, and I don't have the energy to download them again now.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
Reply
#12
OK, so with a global polling frequency of 500ms and 10000 cycles for SMART, do you hear the clicking sound every ~1.5 hours (83 minutes) ? Or is it perhaps more frequent ?
Such problem is very difficult to find remotely - without having direct access to such hardware. So I wanted first to know whether this is a pure problem of HWiNFO, or other tools are affected too. If the Seagate tool is the only one able to query the drive SMART status without causing such clicking sounds, then this will be very difficult.
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#13
Hi Martin

I do not look at the clock every time I hear it, but after several hours I would have heard it a few times and I remember, because it really sounds like the drive is breaking inside. If I set it to a shorter time like every 10 cycles it makes the sound every 3 seconds without fail. If I close HWiNFO I never hear the sound. The sound is different from any other sound the HDD makes no matter what it is busy doing. Even starting from cold at boot does not make that sound.

Open Hardware Monitor gives me temp and usage and the HDD makes that awful sound every 30 seconds. You can't set the frequency for S.M.A.R.T. checks with them.

I am convinced that the new NAS drives need to be accessed differently, so all I can do is hope that of all the monitoring software out there your 20 years of experience will help you the first one to figure it out, so I can have my monitoring software back.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
Reply
#14
Well you're probably right - it seems that only the Seagate tool knows how to access SMART data without causing such effects. That's actually bad news.
Another question: what information returns the Seagate tool about your drive? Can you please attach a screenshot or dump? Does it list all SMART attributes?
Please attach the HWiNFO Debug File, so I can see more details. Will check that, but can't promise a solution yet.
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#15
I've got an idea.. This would require you to run a test using the smartmon tool and providing the above requested information.
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#16
(05-10-2017, 08:57 PM)Martin Wrote: I've got an idea.. This would require you to run a test using the smartmon tool and providing the above requested information.

Hi Martin

Been busy.

Here is SeaTools info capture as requested.

I did not make a HWiNFO Debug file... I could convince Me and Myself, but alas I would not go for it.

You will have to explain exactly what you want me to do with smartmon.

Kind Regards

Jayson


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
Reply
#17
So I'm thinking about an alternate method of retrieving drive health information, but I'm not sure whether that method will work without the annoying noise. And that can be proved using the following test.
First you'd need to install the smartmon tools from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/smartmo...tools/6.5/
Choose the smartmontools-6.5-1.win32-setup.exe file and install it on the machine.
Then you'd need to open a Command Prompt window (or use Total Commander) to navigate to the installation folder of smartmon tools, which is by default: "C:\Program Files\smartmontools\bin"
From that folder you will need to execute a query command, first to identify which drive is it. So first try with:
smartctl.exe -i /dev/hda
or
smartctl.exe -i /dev/sda
The /dev/hda or /dev/sda specify the first drive in system, for the second drive you will use /dev/hdb or /dev/sdb, etc.
Running that command with proper drive name will return the identification data you can check to make sure it's the drive you want to query.
If you know the device name from previous step, run the following command by replacing <device_name> with the above name determined:
smartctl.exe -l devstat <device_name>
That should give you some statistics data about your drive. Now the question is - what information does that command return and does it result in the clicking sound ?
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#18
Hi Martin

Finally got around to doing as you suggested.

See attached image. Not a peep from the drive. In fact it was ominously quiet.

Kind Regards

Jayson

EDIT: My Samsumg 950 SDD however fails with that command.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
Reply
#19
Thanks. Please try this build: http://www.hwinfo.com/beta/hw64_551_3151.zip
Go into main settings / Safety and uncheck the "S.M.A.R.T. Support" option while leaving the "ATA Statistics Support" enabled.
Please let me know the results.
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#20
(05-14-2017, 07:46 PM)Martin Wrote: Thanks. Please try this build: http://www.hwinfo.com/beta/hw64_551_3151.zip
Go into main settings / Safety and uncheck the "S.M.A.R.T. Support" option while leaving the "ATA Statistics Support" enabled.
Please let me know the results.

Hi Martin

Closed HWiNFO.
Copied new beta version (overwriting old).
Unticked S.M.A.R.T. Support in Safety Tab.
Set Polling Frequency back to every 1 cycle (for testing).
Enabled monitoring on the S.M.A.R.T. list heading of the drive (the other heading has always been on).

Drive sounds like I am copying large amounts of data to it. You should know this sound if you have ever listened to a drive when you copy movies or something else big to it (not onto its cache). Disabling S.M.A.R.T. list heading immediately stops the sound.

Reticked S.M.A.R.T. Support in Safety Tab.
Disabled monitoring on the S.M.A.R.T. list heading of the drive.
Set Polling Frequency to every 10000 cycles.

Kind Regards

Jayson
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming G1 MB
Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4GHz CPU
2 x 16GB Kingston HyperX Fury RAM
2 x Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 G1 Gaming 8G GPU
1 x Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M2 SSD
1 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB NAS HDD
1 x Samsung P2770FH 27-Inch Full HD LCD Monitor
Windows 10 Pro x64 OS (Not activated (Simply not worth it))
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