Explaining the AMD Ryzen "Power Reporting Deviation" -metric in HWiNFO

Bravus

New Member
Hi All

New to the tool and the forum. I have a Ryzen 5 2600X in an Asrock X5570 Phantom Gaming 4 motherboard.

This metric is reading as follows, which seems to be far out of spec:

Capture.PNG

The machine has been quite unstable, but I'm not sure whether that's part of the same thing. Happy to share any other info that would be helpful, and delighted if you can help me solve it... or tell me it's not something to worry about if that's the case.
 

rdwing

Member
Hi All

New to the tool and the forum. I have a Ryzen 5 2600X in an Asrock X5570 Phantom Gaming 4 motherboard.

This metric is reading as follows, which seems to be far out of spec:

View attachment 6305

The machine has been quite unstable, but I'm not sure whether that's part of the same thing. Happy to share any other info that would be helpful, and delighted if you can help me solve it... or tell me it's not something to worry about if that's the case.
You should reread https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/thread...ng-deviation-metric-in-hwinfo.6456/post-25045 first.
 

johnydlr

Member
Hi All,

While reading The Stilt's post on reddit and going through this topic here I have stumbled upon this bios setting 'CPU VDD Full Scale Current' and possibility of adjusting PRD closer to 100%
On my motherboard it is part of CPU VDD_SoC Current Optimization, other settings under that branch are: CPU VDD Telemetry Offset Value, CPU SoC Full Scale Current, CPU SoC Telemetry Offset Value.
If possible could someone shed some light here?

How on earth can I find what is the default value of CPU VDD Full Scale Current for my motherboard? I do not wish to set it too high (in search of the default value for my motherboard) as I can see that bios is giving me an option 1-1000A

For reference:

MSI B450 Mortar Max - bios ver E7B89AMS.2D3 (ComboAM4PIV2 1.2.0.2)
R5 5600x

Bios set to default, no oc not even ram, under full load in Cinebench r20:

PRD - 114.8%
PTT - 76W
TDC - 50A
EDC - 90A

In other words over-reported by 14.8% hence PTT = 76W

On an older bios that is 7B89v2C results were worse, PRD over 125%.
I know that my cpu is not going to explode as it is under AMD specified 88W however I am loosing power here. Yes I could play a bit with PBO to bring it back to 88W but that is not the objective.

I would appreciate if someone could help me understand this CPU VDD_SoC Current Optimization group of settings.

Thank You
 
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Zach

Well-Known Member
Hi All

New to the tool and the forum. I have a Ryzen 5 2600X in an Asrock X5570 Phantom Gaming 4 motherboard.

This metric is reading as follows, which seems to be far out of spec:

View attachment 6305

The machine has been quite unstable, but I'm not sure whether that's part of the same thing. Happy to share any other info that would be helpful, and delighted if you can help me solve it... or tell me it's not something to worry about if that's the case.
As the first post says, you got to observe PRD only under full CPU load. Anything else doesn't matter.

Hi All,

While reading The Stilt's post on reddit and going through this topic here I have stumbled upon this bios setting 'CPU VDD Full Scale Current' and possibility of adjusting PRD closer to 100%
On my motherboard it is part of CPU VDD_SoC Current Optimization, other settings under that branch are: CPU VDD Telemetry Offset Value, CPU SoC Full Scale Current, CPU SoC Telemetry Offset Value.
If possible could someone shed some light here?

How on earth can I find what is the default value of CPU VDD Full Scale Current for my motherboard? I do not wish to set it too high (in search of the default value for my motherboard) as I can see that bios is giving me an option 1-1000A

For reference:

MSI B450 Mortar Max - bios ver E7B89AMS.2D3 (ComboAM4PIV2 1.2.0.2)
R5 5600x

Bios set to default, no oc not even ram, under full load in Cinebench r20:

PRD - 114.8%
PTT - 76W
TDC - 50A
EDC - 90A

In other words over-reported by 14.8% hence PTT = 76W

On an older bios that is 7B89v2C results were worse, PRD over 125%.
I know that my cpu is not going to explode as it is under AMD specified 88W however I am loosing power here. Yes I could play a bit with PBO to bring it back to 88W but that is not the objective.

I would appreciate if someone could help me understand this CPU VDD_SoC Current Optimization group of settings.

Thank You
You're right about your board over-stating/reporting the CPU power draw to feedback it. But that is causing the CPU to under-perform because its making it to hold back.
76W PPT and 114.8% PRD means that the true power consumption of the CPU at that time is

76 / 1.148 = 64.45 = 65.5Watt

Its the under-stating/reporting feedback that causes a CPU to exceed its stock limits and not the over-stating/reporting.

Also, 5600X has a max default/stock power consumption (PPT) of 76W and not 88W.
88W PPT is the max for R5 3600 and R7 3700X.

Unfortunately I can't help you with those telemetry offset settings as I'm not familiar with them.
 

johnydlr

Member
76W and not 88W? Thanks for clarification. Because of a wrong assumption I was convinced that CPU PTT value in hwinfo is already recalculated to an actual real value.
Thanks.

UPDATE:

So decided to have a go with 'CPU VDD Full Scale Current' setting. And it turns out that after setting it to 145A in bios the PRD in hwinfo is now very close to 100% under full load in Cinebench and without oc.
Interestingly that has been already pointed out by DrhexUK in post #294 and by u/The-Stilt on reddit.
 

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rdwing

Member
76W and not 88W? Thanks for clarification. Because of a wrong assumption I was convinced that CPU PTT value in hwinfo is already recalculated to an actual real value.
Thanks.

UPDATE:

So decided to have a go with 'CPU VDD Full Scale Current' setting. And it turns out that after setting it to 145A in bios the PRD in hwinfo is now very close to 100% under full load in Cinebench and without oc.
Interestingly that has been already pointed out by DrhexUK in post #294 and by u/The-Stilt on reddit.
Full scale current is what I adjusted on my MSI board to bring PRD to 100%. I found the correct setting for my MSI B550i Gaming Edge WiFi Max/5900x to be 470A.
Stock, this board showed a 110%-115% PRD, now shows bang on 100%. Temperature and frequency went up as a result of this change.

One other data point. I also tested an Asus crosshair viii hero, and it also reported 110% at stock settings .
 

johnydlr

Member
Full scale current is what I adjusted on my MSI board to bring PRD to 100%. I found the correct setting for my MSI B550i Gaming Edge WiFi Max/5900x to be 470A.
Stock, this board showed a 110%-115% PRD, now shows bang on 100%. Temperature and frequency went up as a result of this change.

One other data point. I also tested an Asus crosshair viii hero, and it also reported 110% at stock settings .
Yeah I have noticed increased temps and frequencies as well, very marginal increase in cinebench score as well.
But I still do not know what those settings do and how to use them, searching web does not yield many results if any at all.
I just wish someone published a very comprehensive book about modern bios settings.
 

Zach

Well-Known Member
76W and not 88W? Thanks for clarification. Because of a wrong assumption I was convinced that CPU PTT value in hwinfo is already recalculated to an actual real value.
Thanks.

UPDATE:

So decided to have a go with 'CPU VDD Full Scale Current' setting. And it turns out that after setting it to 145A in bios the PRD in hwinfo is now very close to 100% under full load in Cinebench and without oc.
Interestingly that has been already pointed out by DrhexUK in post #294 and by u/The-Stilt on reddit.
It’s unclear by the screenshot, but did you actually see PRD around 101~102% during Cinebench run?

Your CPU temp is very nice (~61C) for full load. You can easily enable PBO to further increase performance. The setting must be on Auto now, and on all boards that means Disabled.
PBO: Enabled is letting the CPU decide how far past the PPT/EDC/TDC stock limits can/will go.

5600X stock limits
PPT: 76W
EDC: 90A
TDC: 60A
 

johnydlr

Member
OK, I have reset bios to its default values, even RAM is not set at all.
Both screenshots were taken while cinebench was running.
At the beginning of each test hwinfo min/max/avarage values were reset.

First screenshot:
CPU VDD Full Scale Current - Auto
stockprd.jpg
Second screenshot:
CPU VDD Full Scale Current - 143A
stockprdadj.jpg

Hope that helps.
 
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Zach

Well-Known Member
Yes, you manage to set it properly. Now its true power is actually 76W and not 65W. The increased temp (61>>63) is somehow confirms it.
As I said your CPU has a lot of potential for more performance if you enable PBO. Just a suggestion.
 

rdwing

Member
Do we know how the PRD is calculated? I have tested two different Zen 3 processors in two different motherboards from two different companies. Both reported 110% PRD when under full R20 MC load. Of course I can adjust the full scale telemetry to bring it to 100%, but I'm doubting if I'm actually matching the AMD spec or not at that point. Any clues?
 

johnydlr

Member
Not a clue, only hwinfo authors can answer that question. All I know is that if I did not buy a new toy (5600x) I would not even know about PRD because I already had my previous rig set up and running without issues. But you know how it is with new toys, you start checking, testing and so on and on. And it just happened so that this time around playing with hwinfo I actually asked this question 'hmmm what does this do'? I have found the most relevant info here and on reddit and if it was not for The Stilt mentioning that 'certain MSI motherboards offer option to mitigate PRD' I would not even know what CPU VDD Full Scale Current does. Additionally searching for CPU VDD_SoC Current Optimization does not yield many results, maybe one on reddit and that's all I could find. It looks like that despite initial tech press coverage that subject somehow died down. Not sure if it is a coincidence but going from 7B89v2C (AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.0) bios to 7B89v2D3(Beta version) (ComboAM4PIV2 1.2.0.2) PRD went from aprox 125% to aprox 115% so MSI 'did something'. And that is how I ended up in this rabbit hole.
 

aspiringnobody

New Member
I'm seeing 25-30% overreporting on my Asus X470-i. I've documented it here, and an MSI owner said he had the same issue, but was able to flash back to an older BIOS. I've tried everything that I know of, and reported it to Asus and AMD a couple times, it's tossed out immediately though.
I'm on the same board as Yenic (Asus X470-i), although I have a 5800X instead of a 5900X. I can confirm that the PRD is at 120-125% and can also confirm that these boards don't have any way to adjust the full scale current.

Since Asus isn't likely to fix this, I've got to figure out how to work around it ---

So, the question is, where is the discrepancy? Based on how my board behaves in Ryzen master, it seems as though the current (I) is what is actually being over-reported... and PPT (total power in Watts) is only wrong because it is using the incorrect current in the I*E=W equation.

In the image below (current values) 95.005A/1.197 = 79.367A actually consumed, thus 79.367A * 1.194V = 94.765W actual, instead of the reported 113.075W? Is this correct?

OR is the CPU actually drawing 95A, and ONLY the PPT reporting is skewed? (If this is the case there are other issues with this board and Ryzen 5000 because it is ALWAYS TDC limited (never exceeds 95A in any situation).

In the first scenario (TDC/EDC are the "wrong" value and PPT is also wrong, but only because it was given bad amperage numbers for the power formula to work with) I should increase ALL PBO limits by 20% -- PPT 170, TDC 114, EDC 168.

In the second scenario (TDC/EDC are accurately reported, PPT is the "wrong" value) I would increase ONLY PPT to 170 -- and this problem wouldn't affect me at all because my mobo's VRM is such hot garbage that it is reporting thermal issues 100% of the time even though it is only 60C.

I suppose there is a third scenario, where the PRD would be accurate if my board weren't "lying" about the VRM being ready to explode at any second and artificially limiting itself to 95A.

A bit of a wall of text but can someone who understands this better chime in for me please? I had to install windows just to run these diagnostics and I'd like to get my computer back to working normally.

Defo my last Asus board for sure.


EDIT: I ended up leaving PPT and EDC at 142W and 140A, respectively, and bumping TDC up to 105A. At that point I'm thermally limited anyway (85C after a Cinebench r23 run). With my -20 Curve Optimizer that's got me boosting to 4.5 all core -- not good but I'll take it to call this one done.

I just need to make sure the cores are all stable single threaded. This processor ended up being such a waste of $500. I wish I hadn't gotten it. Asus really dropped the ball on M/B support to the point it's unusable. I can't even get the 15300 r23 run I should get stock with no PBO and no OC.


5800x.jpg
 
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Zach

Well-Known Member
Read the first post of this thread please. PRD only matters on 100% CPU load.
When CPU is not 100% loaded, PRD could be from 0% to 600% and its irrelevant without any meaning.

Also, if you have tooltip enabled for the sensors you'll read it when hover mouse pointer over PRD.
 

Kore

New Member
Read the first post of this thread please. PRD only matters on 100% CPU load.
When CPU is not 100% loaded, PRD could be from 0% to 600% and its irrelevant without any meaning.

Also, if you have tooltip enabled for the sensors you'll read it when hover mouse pointer over PRD.
Thank you mate.
 

ooga_boogalo

New Member
Hi All,

I am a new builder and this is the first pc that I have built. I have encounter some pc restarting randomly and so I went to some discord server to ask for tech support. One of them told me to us hwinfo to see what is wrong and now I have wonder through this post.

1624446253532.png

The only thing really wrong with it is the power deviation, with the percentage that bad, it means the motherboard is under reporting correct? And hence it could drastically increase the temp of my CPU even at idle and hence cause it to be unstable due to high voltage?

I have stressed tested my GPU and PSU and the results of those two seems to be fine. I don't know what might be the problem but this seems like it. My motherboard is Gigabyte B550M DS3H (rev 1) if that helps (this is also while it's idle)

edit: This is what Hwinfo read when my CPU is under full load from cinebench, I am still a little confused as to how to change the amp, is 76% okay?
1624453063214.png
 
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DzmitryGR

New Member
Если сильно отличается (больше 5% в какую либо сторону), то лучше подкорректировать его с помощью VDD full_scale_current (в меню PBS - это шкала телеметрии)..у тебя еще и память в рассинхроне fclk должно быть равно uclk
 

junneh

New Member
So I have Gigabyte b550 aorus elite with only 70% under full load. However I do like gigabyte most, and im looking to upgrade to x570 for extra nvme.

Is the power reporting deviation also so bad on gigabyte x570s? Im looking at x570 pro specifically.

And what about Asrock?

I know Asus and MSI play fair on this, but I dont like the brands/offerings
 

Zach

Well-Known Member
So I have Gigabyte b550 aorus elite with only 70% under full load. However I do like gigabyte most, and im looking to upgrade to x570 for extra nvme.

Is the power reporting deviation also so bad on gigabyte x570s? Im looking at x570 pro specifically.

And what about Asrock?

I know Asus and MSI play fair on this, but I dont like the brands/offerings
You know PRD alone does not tell anything. You must take account of what PPT reports during that full load 70% PRD.
Depends on the CPU you have and it’s stock PPT.

Anyway, I have Aorus Pro X570 (F32 Bios) with R5 3600 that has a stock PPT of 88W.
During full load my PRD is around 89~92% and PPT report around 87W.
So the true total power consumption of CPU is:
87 / 0.89~0.92 = 94.5~97.7W
 
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