Help with PRD readings

Hi Zach, I've attached a snapshot with the settings and highlighted bits that you requested and I watched that video, it was all way over my head - there's a lot of concept/things that I would need to understand first before getting my head around what's there but it's still great content. However, it did make me think do I really need PBOs and curve optimizers just to browse the internet and have a stable system out of the box? It seems grossly unnecessary, I mean why is this stuff even needed out of the box in the first place? Why do I need to control all these things when there was stability in previous less powerful builds? It doesn't make sense, in fact I would argue there is far too many options or 'whistles and bells'/software 'tweaks' in nearly all hardware now and whether they're actually needed/necessary is highly debatable, I mean we got by just fine with one bios page 10-15 years ago but now we have 20 pages and I've never had so many problems, same with hardware - now CPU's/PSU/Fans/Peripherals/GPUs/Monitors all have massive amounts of software to go with them and I'm not even talking about drivers. For me I think it all just adds up to increasing the potential for conflict for the sake of nothing more than marketing ploys. Take my GPU for example I went through every option in my software package (Andrenalin), literally pages of options that apparently do this and do that and I even watched the official video explaining what the technological marvel tweaks apparently did and it all sounded spectacular yet when I clicked each box most of it did nothing. In fact I could say with absolute certainty that I either got slight stuttering and no rubber-banding or no stuttering and rubber banding so yes it all sounds ground breaking and something you need but the reality, for me anyway, is that's it's largely junk and completely unneeded. Sorry for venting but when I think of the money I've spent and my old computer was smoother and much more stable and this isn't just with my current build but a trend over a long period that increased as I spent more (apparently upgrading). Bottom line is I now have the latest and fastest things - keyboard, PSU, monitor, mobo, mouse, cpu, etc etc and yet I get slight input lag in both windows and games, my mouse feels 'floaty' at times like it's moving over glass and my temps jump through the roof by merely opening a webpage? £3500+ spent? Doesn't seem right at all.

Depressed rant aside I really appreciate the on-going support and help, it's been amazing, thanks.

Current results for Zach with highlighted.png
 

Zach

Well-Known Member
I cant disagree with you on the complexity of things today. Nowhere near 15~20years ago.
CPUs got a lot more complex in their function, so this requires a more complex management too. But surely that is the job of the board with the BIOS, and microcode, the AGESA... and windows of course.
The truth is that sometimes things are far from ideal. And I'm not trusting any board vendor that they will do the job 100% right.
Also I'm not convinced that your lag issue is related with the function of the CPU in its current state.

The thing is that your board "likes" to supply more voltage to the CPU that it truly needs across all work loads. And we can see this if we compare our shots side by side.

Untitled_03.png

1. On blue boxes you can see that the 5900X is more loaded than the 5950X. More avg CPU usage, more avg active cores. Ok, yes the 5900X has 25% less cores but the difference on load is more than 100%. So its not the core difference.
2. Yet orange boxes on the left indicate the avg core speed of the 5950X during activity time is higher than 5900X. The same thing is visible with all orange boxes on the right. More avg voltage/amperage/wattage on light stuff like surfing...

The highest voltage I ever saw was something like 1.51V without any optimization and around 1.49V with the curve opt.
The thing is that we have big difference on the averages. To be honest my avg voltage during low loads didn't change too much from stock settings. Its around 1.05~1.12V as it did before.
It was already low from before, but also because thats how I set the curve and the PBO limits (PPT/EDC/TDC). My settings kept the same voltage behavior but raised the CPU clocks. But that 1 way out of many variable ways.

I understand that all these are maybe too much for the average user.
As I said before I can help maybe optimize your CPU to a better state. You dont have to deal with it alone. I only showed that video so you will know what are the possibilities and what we can do about it.

Remember that there are many options/paths that a user can take

1. Decrease power(W) (=lower temps also) while maintaining same performance
2. Decrease power(W) and increase performance (in this case the lower power and lower temp delta will be smaller, and also the increased performance)
3. Maintain same power(W) and increase performance (no difference in power usage = same temp)
4. Decrease both (highest power/temp reduction, but also performance)

5. Increase both (higher all = power, temp, performance)

And those 5 can each be expanded into more options. For example:

4. Decrease both (highest power/temp reduction, same performance)

------------------------------------


This kind of optimization has value across all kinds of workloads. Surfing, gaming, or even heavier loads.


What also amazes me is that your 360mm AIO handles worse the 140W of the 5950X than my 280mm handles the 160W of the 5900X.
I'm still not sure if the mounting force is proper. I could maybe make a conclusion if I knew the water temp during those 80+C CPU temps
 
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...I'm still not sure if the mounting force is proper. I could maybe make a conclusion if I knew the water temp during those 80+C CPU temps..
Hi Zach,

Again thanks for getting back, is there a way I can show the water temps? Also, do you think it might be the water cooler? On a side note I sent an RMA request to AMD but I feel you're are right that it might not be the chip. But something else... the problem is what else?
 

Zach

Well-Known Member
About water cooler:
What can I say, the numbers are saying that it might be something wrong. Or maybe your environment is too warm.

Like I said your CPU never exceeds it’s all stock power figure (142W PPT) yet it’s temp closing at times the operating limit (90C) with a 360mm cooler.

I operate the 5900X beyond stock power limits up to 160-170W (on multithreaded benchmark) and I’m getting a peak of 75-80C with 30C ambient (no PC case though).

I have no clue about Fractal AIOs.
How they are connected or if there is available software for just monitoring, let alone control.
Maybe @Martin knows something more.

What model is the Fractal AIO?

———————

Issues like PC lagging are far too complex to pinpoint the cause. Could be so many things… on hardware or software level.
I would start maybe by removing or disconnecting non essential hardware/software for the basic operation of the system. Change monitor settings and/or the cable too
Reduce RAM sticks to 2 or even 1, reduce disks…

It’s shooting in the dark
 
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About water cooler:
What can I say, the numbers are saying that it might be something wrong. Or maybe your environment is too warm.

Like I said your CPU never exceeds it’s all stock power figure (142W PPT) yet it’s temp closing at times the operating limit (90C) with a 360mm cooler.

I operate the 5900X beyond stock power limits up to 160-170W (on multithreaded benchmark) and I’m getting a peak of 75-80C with 30C ambient (no PC case though).

I have no clue about Fractal AIOs.
How they are connected or if there is available software for just monitoring, let alone control.
Maybe @Martin knows something more.

What model is the Fractal AIO?

———————

Issues like PC lagging are far too complex to pinpoint the cause. Could be so many things… on hardware or software level.
I would start maybe by removing or disconnecting non essential hardware/software for the basic operation of the system. Change monitor settings and/or the cable too
Reduce RAM sticks to 2 or even 1, reduce disks…

It’s shooting in the dark
The fractal is a lumen 36S, I noticed something though. There seems to be a little bit of a debate where to connect the radiator cooling fans and radiator connector. I've daisychained my radiator fans and connected them to the 'CPU' header and then attached the radiator connector to the header labelled pump but there seems to be a lot of people who do the opposite or at least different in that they hook up the daisy-chained radiator cooling fans to one of the System fan headers and the radiator connector to the CPU header.
Lastly, I checked my fans RPMs via CPUID, do these look normal?
pump speed.png
 

Zach

Well-Known Member
Yes it looks normal for both pump (has a fixed speed of 4000rpm +/-10%) and the fans that have a range of 500~2000rpm.

The manual doesn't say much about the connections, but I think you got it right...

1658468485140.png

Mine is completely different, but it is what it is... doesn't mean anything.

1. The block/pump is connected to PSU to an L-shape SATA
2. Fans are connected with the block/pump with 2 separate 4-pin cables
3. A small USB mini cable goes from the block to an internal USB2 header
4. A 1-pin connector goes to the CPU header on the board just to signal pump rpm, so you can see it with any info tool, and also the board sees some rpm there.

This way everything is powered from the SATA, and I control everything via Corsair's software through that mini USB.
2 different fan curves so each fan can react differently to water temp
2 different pump speeds (high-low)

If I want I can plug the Rad fans to 2 different 4-pin fan headers on the board and control them with curves from BIOS or any other software that can do this but without iCUE I can't control the pump and I do not know on what speed runs by default (without iCUE). I could test though but no need for this. iCUE has been kind to me...
 
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Just a little update,

I'm currently talking to AMD about an RMA but in the meantime trying to go through all of my hardware to see if something isn't doing it's job. I've got in contact with Fractal and a nice chap there is helping me out also, I had to send pictures of my setup so I'll keep you posted!

Thanks again for all the help Zach.

Cheers.
 

Zach

Well-Known Member
Just a little update,

I'm currently talking to AMD about an RMA but in the meantime trying to go through all of my hardware to see if something isn't doing it's job. I've got in contact with Fractal and a nice chap there is helping me out also, I had to send pictures of my setup so I'll keep you posted!

Thanks again for all the help Zach.

Cheers.
Hey how are you...
Any luck with your lag issue?

A question as I do not remember if we said it already...

Are you running Windows10 or 11?
If its 11 then try to disable fTPM in BIOS and see if problem remains.
 
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